Having difficult talks with your son should happen sooner than you might think, expert says

By Don Riddell, CNN

(CNN) — I’ve loved every second of being a dad to twin boys, but parenting is a responsibility that comes with multiple challenges. Since my sons have just left for college, I’m now reflecting on the job my wife and I have done and how much more work might still be ahead.

Some challenges we faced were brand-new: This is the first generation that has had to navigate the advent of social media, with a pandemic lockdown thrown in for good measure. A job that was already difficult for parents of adolescent boys now seems to be even harder.

An increasing number of boys are lonely, isolated and confused, wrestling with the aftermath of the #MeToo movement and the expectations of rigid masculinity, which has been widely characterized as toxic. Many have either lost or never had the ability to express themselves in a constructive way.

Middle and high school educator Christopher Pepper and coauthor Joanna Schroeder hope their new book, “Talk to Your Boys: 16 Conversations to Help Tweens and Teens Grow Into Confident, Caring Young Men,” will provide families with the tools to help.

I spoke with Pepper, who has helped coordinate Young Men’s Health Groups in San Francisco, to learn how parents can steer their sons through minefields like screen time and technology, pornography, consent, and alcohol and substance use. He has discovered that despite their awkward stereotype, teenage boys really do want a chance to connect.

This interview has been lightly edited and condensed for clarity.

CNN: Teenage boys have always had a reputation for being grumpy and hard to reach. What’s different now?

Christopher Pepper: A big change is the introduction of phones and how much space phones and video games take up now in the lives of teenagers. We’ve seen a decrease in in-person hangout time. We’ve seen a decrease in dating. And largely that is replaced with people on devices or on video games. You miss out on a lot when you’re not in person with other people.

CNN: How do you know that parents are struggling?

Pepper: Every time I do a talk about boys, there’s a line of people with questions afterward. And they’re often very personal. People are concerned. We’ve seen that concern come up with boys who are connecting with charismatic figures online. Sometimes, those charismatic figures online are trying to sell them things or have a message that is not very prosocial.

CNN: In addition to the advent of the internet and smartphones, we’ve also had the #MeToo movement. How has that changed the landscape for teenage boys?

Pepper: Things feel unsettled for a lot of adult men and boys trying to figure out “What is my place in the world?” They generally want to be good guys. They want to be allies. They want to be supportive to their friends. They don’t want to be creepy. They sometimes go into their social lives with a lot of anxiety about those things. Part of what we need to do is to reassure them that it is OK to be attracted to someone else. Flirting is OK. Sexual harassment is not OK.

CNN: You have worked with boys, and you also have sons. What has made you think we need to do something different?

Pepper: I’ve seen how seductive video games are for boys. I’ve sat in the back of a room with a bunch of middle school boys who are playing online, and the language that they use when they’re playing video games often is not OK with me: slurs, hateful words, people being just really rough with each other in the way that they talk. I’ve seen the need for some intervention, to say this is not how we treat other people, to remind them that the person that they’re playing with is still a person with feelings, and the thing that seems funny when you say it may come across as deeply painful.

CNN: What are the consequences of not getting this right?

Pepper: Boys are saying that they don’t feel like school is a place for them, and we’re seeing big changes in the number of young men finishing college. I don’t want young men to disengage from the world.

If we don’t help boys find those connections, they do find connections with hate groups and sometimes get drawn into real extremist beliefs. They’re looking for an explanation of why their lives aren’t proceeding the way they expected it to. They start to blame groups, immigrants or women, thinking someone else caused these life circumstances. They’re looking for answers, and that can be really harmful and dangerous.

CNN: What questions are adolescent boys trying to answer on the internet?

Pepper: It is totally natural for boys and girls to be curious about how to live their lives and how to be successful. Specifically, boys often are looking for fitness tips. They’re often looking for ideas about how to make money and how to get someone to like them. Those are basic teenage concerns. But every time they log into a social media account, every time they go play a game, they start to get more and more things sent to them. I don’t like to use the term toxic masculinity very much, but sometimes the content that is fed to boys feels pretty toxic.

CNN: What on Earth do you say and how do you say it? And when, because there never seems to be a good time?

Pepper: Use small conversations and try and bring them up as naturally as possible. Often people like side-by-side conversations where they’re riding in a car. Many boys respond well to talking while they’re doing something else. While you’re going for a walk, while you’re tossing a ball back and forth, while you’re playing basketball or right afterward can be good times to talk.

Doing some physical activity is one way to keep the stress levels down, because sometimes people get anxious about these kinds of conversations, and you want to avoid that as much as possible. Invite boys to not just listen to you, but to talk back to you and share what’s going on in their lives.

CNN: Some parents fear that talking to kids too soon about pornography or alcohol is only going to pique their curiosity.

Pepper: The average age that young people see porn is around 12. Sometimes parents say, “Well, it feels too early. I’m going to wait until they bring it up.” Kids are not going to bring this up! You can think about it like drinking and driving — that is a conversation that parents have a little more practice with and often are comfortable having. Use that as a model for how to talk about some other things aimed at keeping our kids safe and healthy.

CNN: How much should parents admit when they’re trying to talk with their boys?

Pepper: Storytelling is really powerful, and you may find that you have one or two stories that you are comfortable sharing. Often, this is coming up around substance use or risky driving or sexuality in relationships. You do not need to share everything that you’ve ever done in your life to be an effective parent. You could talk about something that happened to a friend.

CNN: Do parents need to have a game plan before having these conversations?

Pepper: If you have a co-parent or spouse who you’re working with, talking about these together can be a great way to develop that game plan. Lay out your fears. What are your concerns? And there are great resources out there. There is a website called thenewdrugtalk.org that’s free to use and has great scenarios to use for those conversations. It’s important to recognize how much things have changed — things like weed gummies, edible cannabis and fentanyl — big changes in the drug landscape. Adults need to know about those things before they try and talk about them.

CNN: Does it matter who gives the sex talk? Should it be Dad?

Pepper: Go with who’s comfortable having a conversation. A sex talk from someone who’s very uncomfortable is probably not going to go well. But I would love to encourage men, either as dads or as uncles or teachers, to be in that role of providing some emotional support. I want teenagers overall, but especially boys, to see adult men who can speak comfortably about topics like changing bodies and sexuality and relationships, and to express their emotions fully.

A lot of boys get this message that being a man means that you have to kind of shut off your emotions, never cry, be tough all the time, not show anyone that you are vulnerable. These kinds of talks are actually a place to show you can be a man and still care about feelings and still express emotions.

CNN: You interviewed 85 boys and young men for this book, ages 10 to 22. What surprised you about what they said?

Pepper: Many of those boys said they really wish they could have more open conversations with the adults in their lives. Some of them said their dads were very rigid, and they wished that their dads would be more real with them, be more emotional with them.

CNN: What is one thing you’d like a parent to take away from your work?

Pepper: A lot of people turn off the parenting valves or turn them down pretty low once kids get to middle school and especially into high school. They say, “I can’t get through to them anymore. I guess we’ll see how things turn out.”

You have to keep going, really parent these boys, even into early adulthood. Be an active part of their lives, even if it feels like they’re pushing you away or they’re not open to it. Keep trying. Boys this age really need guidance from adults who care about them and love them and will not go away the first time they slam the door. You’ve got to keep trying and stay involved with their lives.

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